Podcast: Planned Giving With Katherine Miller

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Taylor Pardue (00:07):

Welcome to the NC State Philanthropy Podcast, telling the world how we Think and Do through the support of our friends, alumni and more. I’m your host, Taylor Pardue.

(00:22):

On this episode, we’re joined by Katherine Miller, the executive director of gift planning here at NC State, to discuss planned giving and its importance to the university’s long-term success.

(00:31):

Thanks so much for joining us today, Katherine. To kick things off, tell listeners a little bit about yourself and what brought you to NC State.

Katherine Miller (00:51):

Absolutely. First of all, thanks so much, Taylor, for having me on here. I’m delighted to have the chance to join you and talk a little bit about what I do and what my team does, but my name is Katherine Miller. I’m the executive director of gift planning at NC State. Prior to coming to NC State, so I’m not a native North Carolinian, but almost. I moved here when I was about 5; had the chance to grow up in the local Raleigh area, so was very familiar with NC State, of course, and all of that growing up. Went to the light blue school down the road for my degrees, but, so, always kind of stayed fairly local.

(01:27):

After that, I went into public accounting here locally. I’m a CPA and worked in public accounting for a number of years, working with high-net-worth individuals and their families doing all sorts of tax work and then had the opportunity to transition that tax knowledge, particularly in the realm of estate and gift work and individual charitable deductions, over to working at NC State and helping folks make tax-advantage gifts and legacy gifts. So, [it] has been a really, really fun transition. I’ve been here about a little over seven years.

Taylor Pardue (02:04):

Sounds like the perfect transition from that private sector, your body of work into now working with NC State.

Katherine Miller (02:09):

Yeah.

Taylor Pardue (02:09):

And you were joking about light blue. It’s one of those “you got here as quickly as you could” kind of things.

Katherine Miller (02:15):

That’s right, that’s right. It was a wonderful change. I was not sorry to leave behind all of those tax deadlines. Every April 15th, I throw a little hurrah that I’m sitting where I am and not knee-deep in tax forms, but it’s also been a true pleasure to work with donors and to feel … making a difference and seeing the impact that working with these donors to plan these legacy gifts really has on the institution, on the students, on our future. So, it’s really been a wonderful and enjoyable transition.

Taylor Pardue (02:48):

So, tell us, what all is involved in this role that you’re in now?

Katherine Miller (02:52):

Yeah, absolutely. So, I actually joined the Office of Gift Planning as an associate director of gift planning, working from day one with donors to plan both legacy gifts, which are gifts in their estate plans. So, we have donors who make gifts through wills and trusts. They use retirement accounts to do beneficiary designations. So, all those different vehicles, helping them plan what the purpose of their gift is and how to put that in place, working with their own attorneys and advisors. We also work on planned gifts that are not legacy gifts, that are current gifts. Typically, a planned gift that’s current is going to be something that is tax-advantaged. So, rather than just writing us a check or swiping the credit card at year-end, we have donors who make gifts of stock, which is a very tax-advantaged way to give. For our donors who are 70 and a half and older, they can make distributions from their IRA called a qualified charitable distribution.

(03:51):

We also work with donors who gift real estate to the university; much like a gift of stock, it’s very tax-advantaged to gift the asset and then have us, as the charity, sell that asset instead of them. And so, my team works with all of those types of gifts and working with donors to help understand what might be some options that could be well-suited for them, for them to take back and talk to their advisors and determine how they want to move forward, and then, of course, assist with the actual transaction itself. And so, I’ve been here, like I said, about seven years. I’ve gone through a number of roles and [am] now leading the team. And so, with that comes a lot of other fun things we get to consider.

(04:33):

In addition to working with the donors, now having my hands in things like the marketing that we do. We have an annual event called the Pullen Society Luncheon, where our legacy donors are recognized every year and celebrated by the chancellor. So, I get to work with planning that event and getting that put together, which is always really enjoyable to celebrate the commitments that folks have made and see them come together. So, lots of different elements there.

Taylor Pardue (05:05):

You talked a little bit about it already, but I know there are some people who probably think, “Planned giving: I can leave something to the university in my will,” but talk a little bit more about the different vehicles that people can use, like real estate and things like that. There’s just so much that I know can go into planned giving that people may not know about.

Katherine Miller (05:22):

Yeah, absolutely. It really is eye-opening kind of when you sit down and start to look at it. There are so many options. As you said, one really obvious thing that many people are familiar with is a gift in a will or a trust. Many people have a will that kind of establishes a trust and, in the same manner, can also leave a gift there, but there are a lot of other options. So, sometimes a gift in a will could be a set dollar amount, but it can also be a percentage of the estate. So, that’s a way to do it, depending what your goals are. Some folks also choose to leave a specific asset in their will. So, some folks actually say, “Hey, I’m going to leave my house or some other specific asset in particular under the will.”

(06:05):

Then, we also think about there are ways to do it outside of the will. So, one great example of that is folks who have retirement accounts. If you think your 401(K), IRA or whatever other employer plan you might have, you’re probably familiar, when you set up that plan, you typically are required to fill in a beneficiary who would inherit that plan upon your passing, and you are able to name multiple beneficiaries, split that according to percentages. And one thing that folks don’t always know is that they can name a charity as the beneficiary or a beneficiary, depending what you wanted to do for the charity as a percentage of that account. And whereas, in particular, with retirement accounts, any individual who you name on that account, when they inherit the account, they’re going to be mandated to take distributions from that account, and they are going to pay income tax on that, just like you do when you take distributions from your retirement account, assuming we’re talking a traditional pre-tax account, but charities that inherit those accounts, it’s completely tax-free because, of course, the charitable entity, there’s no income tax there.

(07:16):

So, it’s actually a great way to increase the size of your estate by cutting out the income taxes that otherwise would be assessed on the retirement account by naming a charity as a beneficiary there. It’s very simple and straightforward. Typically, most folks can access their retirement accounts online, including designation forms, and are able to just go online and update that really quickly and easily. So, that can be a great way for folks who are interested in the tax advantages of giving to charity that way and instead leaving their family members assets that wouldn’t be taxed. It’s also a great way for folks who are interested in making a gift to charity but aren’t necessarily wanting to go to an attorney and redo their entire estate plan at the moment. It’s a way that they can put that gift in place now.

Taylor Pardue (08:02):

OK. Talk a little bit about maybe some of the stories, no names or numbers or anything, but some of the different venues that people can give to — the different areas across campus that people have benefited through planned giving already scholarships, things like that.

Katherine Miller (08:16):

Yeah, absolutely, and that’s one of the things I love about this job is I see such a breadth of areas of giving across campus. So, I really get to see all the different incredible things that NC State has to offer, because, of course, donors support a wide spectrum of things. Of course, we see a lot of scholarships; folks who either receive scholarships themselves and want to pay it forward or didn’t even necessarily receive a scholarship but they feel that the education they received at NC State is really what set them up for success in their life and they want to pay that forward to students who may not be able to afford that education on their own. And so, they set up scholarships all across the university. We see scholarships at all of the different colleges. Some of them are specific to a major, some are broad within a college itself, and so, we see a lot of that. But we also see folks who make gifts unrestricted to certain programs, so maybe their home department or areas like University Libraries or the [Division of] Academic and Student Affairs, things like that that donors will provide broad, unrestricted support to.

(09:28):

It’s always wonderful getting to explore with folks what the options are for them and what it is they’re passionate about and what they’d like to accomplish. So, we come in and we get to talk to folks about, well, of course, there’s always a conversation about the program they graduated from. Many folks do tend to that, but a lot of folks also have other passions. They may be passionate, as I said, about Libraries, athletics. We’ve got a lot of animal lovers with our College of Veterinary Medicine. So, there are tons of areas across campus that are, just really whatever our donors are interested in, that we’re able to offer different options to help structure their support there.

Taylor Pardue (10:08):

You mentioned earlier, Pullen Society and different things. Tax benefits are kind of the obvious for planned giving. What are some of those current benefits that a planned giver can enjoy now?

Katherine Miller (10:18):

Yeah, absolutely. So, the Pullen Society, that’s something that’s really important to us and, as you said, kind of making sure that our donors really can still experience some of the benefits of what they’re doing even though that gift may not be occurring now. So, of course with our current tax-efficient planned gifts, right, they’re getting their tax benefits and they are perhaps seeing that gift now, if it’s something they’re transferring like stock or real estate, and they’re seeing the gift put to work, which is wonderful, but we have many donors who are making their legacy gifts and it’s a retirement beneficiary designation or it’s a gift in their will, and so, that gift won’t actually come to fruition until, of course, they’ve passed away, which is not a great time for us to be saying thank you. So, we love the opportunity to induct these folks into our Pullen Society, have them to the annual luncheon, give them the chance to meet and interact with other donors who have similar inclinations regarding their legacy plans.

(11:19):

We have certain events for Pullen Society that sometimes we’re able to host small groups — theater, athletic events, things like that. But, of course, the luncheon is our big event for the whole group each year. We also have colleges and units that are very good about trying to include our legacy donors. For example, if their gift is going to be directed for scholarship, they are typically included in that college’s annual scholarship reception so that they have the chance to hear from current scholarship recipients and have that experience similar to current donors. We are so deeply appreciative of the commitments these folks are making. We really want them to feel that and to experience all the good that they’re going to be doing in the future through that stewardship now, and I think that’s something that they really enjoy.

(12:09):

The other piece I didn’t mention that my office handles is life income gifts, which is a really interesting hybrid. So, it’s folks who are actually transferring assets now — often gifts of cash or stock — to fund, for example, a charitable gift annuity or a charitable trust. So, they are getting their tax deduction, but with those gifts, they receive payments back for the rest of their life, and the actual charitable component doesn’t come until they pass away. And so, again, Pullen Society and these other events that we do still allows them to experience the benefits of that future gift that they’ll be making.

Taylor Pardue (12:47):

I love that aspect of that current gratitude. Of course, so much of what we do here at the university is thanking donors, but being able to go ahead and show planned givers, especially, that what your gift will do in the future. Like you said, going ahead and meeting scholarship recipients, things like that. I think that has probably been the biggest eye-opener, probably, stepping into my role here at the university, working in the philanthropy side of things, is, I say “some people” may not know about planned giving. “Some people” may think it’s just … but that was me coming in, was, I thought it was as simple as you left something in your will and it went to the university, but I’ve loved learning so much more about it and, like you said, the myriad ways that it benefits the university.

Katherine Miller (13:28):

Yeah, we’re very fortunate to have a program here where we’re able to meet donors where they are. For example, the life income gifts, our ability to accept real estate. Not all charities are able to do that. We have a fantastic real estate office that helps us with the process of doing that and then selling the real estate. And so, it really enables us to offer donors the tax benefits of certain assets to make sure that they can make their charitable giving in the way that really makes the most sense for them and not just a one-size-fits-all approach of “we only take cash or check.” We try really hard to be able to accept gifts in whatever manner makes sense for the dono. And legacy gifts as well, that we can work with folks to structure things in their estate plans and, of course, working with their advisors, but whether they want to set up a scholarship or things like that, that we’ll work with them now so that they’ll choose, for example, the name of the scholarship, the criteria of what that student will look like in the future. And that’s all laid out now in their plans. So, in the future, when that funding comes in, everything has already been structured and laid out.

Taylor Pardue (14:40):

I love that, too, because it’s not, like you said, it’s not just cash or check, but it’s also, you mentioned, a percentage. You don’t have to give a certain amount to benefit NC State; it can be relative to what you have. I mean, it really is not a one size fits all. It’s very personalized.

Katherine Miller (14:56):

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s a big question for a lot of folks that we sit down with, because that’s the big unknown. Nobody really knows what will be left at the end of the day because we don’t know when that will be, and everybody kind of hopes, well, hopefully we don’t have too much left. Hopefully we’ve had a really long, enjoyable life. Hopefully we’ve traveled until we’re 98 and a half and done lots of great things and spent down all those assets. It’s kind of what everybody hopes for, for the most part. But yeah, it’s looking at, well, what makes sense? If you want to do a scholarship, we have certain minimums there that have to be met, but unrestricted gifts, there’s no minimums to meet. Or sometimes we have folks who may have gone ahead and established the scholarship during their lifetime and they just want to enhance it through their legacy plans and add to that. And so, really, sometimes doing it as a percentage of whatever may be left can make the most sense for them.

Taylor Pardue (15:56):

I think that helps, too. I’m sure from your role you’ve seen this, too, that it helps people go ahead and be thinking of that long-term planning when they don’t have to worry about the unknowns like that. They can go ahead and plan accordingly and just go ahead and start reaping the benefits of it, too. Being able to meet scholarship recipients and be part of Pullen Society and things like that. So, yeah, it just helps even more with that.

Katherine Miller (16:18):

That’s one thing we hear a lot from folks is, as they begin the process of working on estate plans, and oftentimes there’s a trigger for that, right? Folks may be experiencing some sort of life event. There’s something that’s kind of triggered them to do this, but we all know that estate planning is very few people’s top of their list of fun things to do.

Taylor Pardue (16:42):

Sure.

Katherine Miller (16:42):

Nobody says, “I really want to this year. That’s what I really want to do. I’m going to spend a bunch of time, I’m going to sit down with an attorney, I’m going to structure out however I want anything, and I’m so excited about it.” That’s not typically what we’re hearing from folks. And it’s a process, and it’s something folks don’t always enjoy thinking about, but we routinely hear from folks who go through the process, as they are working their way through the process and as they’re wrapping up their plans, that they’re so glad to be getting on the other side of that — that they feel this burden has really been lifted, that something is in place and they feel good about it, and that they can just move forward and not have it hanging over them, and they can go off and do all the things and enjoy themselves because they’ve taken care of all the paperwork now.

(17:30):

And so, that is something: a great sense of relief that their plans are done. Of course, can always be revisited. Nothing’s set in stone, but it’s a great relief for many folks to have at least something on paper and then to be able to enjoy, as you said, then they can just enjoy doing all of the things, meeting the students, joining Pullen Society, and going off and doing all the things they wanted to do. So, it’s really a pleasure to work with folks. Typically, they find a lot of joy in this process, and that’s a great thing to be a part of.

Taylor Pardue (18:04):

I love to hear that as well. Like you said, not just from a negative to a neutral, but a negative to a positive feeling of it all. What are some of the other, maybe, frequently asked questions that come up for your office that kind of come to mind that maybe we haven’t touched on already?

Katherine Miller (18:15):

Oh gosh.

Taylor Pardue (18:18):

Like you said, I’m sure there’s the metaphorical, the unknown just of life and everything, but there’s probably the unknown, too, of just the financial side of it. Maybe the questions that come up.

Katherine Miller (18:28):

Yeah, I think some of the most common questions we hear, honestly, is, “What does this encompass? What are my options?” I mean, I can’t tell you how many folks I sit down with, they’re coming in with very little awareness of the myriad of options we talked about. They may have heard, “Yep, I can make a gift in my will,” and they’re not aware of this whole realm of options that are offered to them. And so, to be able to sit down and say, “Yes, you can do a gift in a will, and we can help with that, but also, do you want to consider a gift through, for example, a retirement account?” We can talk about tax benefits there that they may not have considered. We can talk about tax benefits of current gifts.

(19:07):

There’s a great story. A donor I worked with early on, I was told that he wanted to talk about a planned gift to set up a scholarship endowment. So, I said, “OK, that’s wonderful.” We sit down, we start talking about how he could do it. He was thinking about a gift in his will, and I kind of walked him through everything. And as our conversation progressed and he started talking about, “I really wish,” he said, “I really wish I could do this now, but I just am not in the position to do that.” And, of course, we hear that a lot, and I said, “Of course, and we’re just really grateful that you intend to do this in your legacy plans.” And that’s a common thing to hear from folks because, of course, setting up a scholarship is a significant financial commitment to make now, and a lot of folks are more able to do that through their legacy plans. But he started talking about wanting to make an annual gift, and so we kind of transitioned the conversation, and I said, “Well, have you thought about how you’re going to make the annual gift?”

(20:02):

And he said, “Well, I’m just going to write a check,” but it was a fairly sizable amount. And I said, “Well, have you thought about gifts of stock? Is that something you’ve ever considered? There’s some tax benefits there.” And he was not familiar with that, and he asked me to kind of walk him through that. And so, we sat down there, and I kind of walked him through, numerically, how that works and what the tax benefits would be. And he just sat there and said, “I have never heard this before. This is amazing. When I was talking to you about funding a scholarship, I was just thinking about my cash that I have, but if I can use stock, I could do this now.” And it had not ever occurred to him that he could use stock to fund an endowment now. And he was just so beyond excited that this gift that he really was so excited about making but thought that he wouldn’t get to see happen, that he said, I can do this right now. I can do this before the end of the year.” It was approaching the holidays.

(20:59):

And so, he funded that scholarship through a gift of stock, and it’s now been probably four or five years that he’s been able to meet his scholarship recipients, and he is just over the moon about it. And so, really, being able to help folks find avenues that they may not have known were possible for them, and just seeing how much joy and excitement it brings to them, is one of the things that keeps me here. It’s just so fulfilling to help with that.

Taylor Pardue (21:26):

That’s great.

Katherine Miller (21:27):

Yeah.

Taylor Pardue (21:27):

I think that’s a perfect segue, too. What is the, I guess there is no typical meeting, planning and everything, but walk a listener through how they can find out more information about planned giving here at the university and what that process looks like.

Katherine Miller (21:41):

Yeah, absolutely. So, first of all, I’ll say that we have our website for the Office of Gift Planning. If you visit ncsugift.org, you’ll find our contact information there. We have a main line for our office, which is 919-515-5106, and there’s an email address listed there as well. And so, please pick up the phone, send an email, but yes, anybody who either may have already included us in their plans and not notified us and would like to have a conversation about that, if you’d like to join Pullen Society, if you’d like to come experience some stewardship events, perhaps if your gift was just left very broadly in your plans. But if you’d like to talk about maybe something more specific, if you’d like to talk about setting up a scholarship and how that would work, we would love to have that conversation with you. Or if this is just something you’re considering, it’s not in your plans yet, if you’d like to talk about what the options could be, please reach out.

(22:41):

Myself and my team are regularly available to sit down with folks. We will talk about what all the options might be for you and the type of gift that you’re considering. If we’re talking about a legacy gift or current gift — or both, if you’d like to hear that — we kind of start with you. You kind of tell us what some parameters are and what you’re thinking about, and then we kind of lay out what some avenues may be for that. We can help you walk through different options for scholarships. We can help you look at different areas of campus. We can introduce you to folks in those areas of campus if you have more specific questions about their programs. So, [it] really is, I think, a very comfortable, very donor-friendly process. We take your lead, and if you want to come in and meet with a lot of folks and have a lot of our conversation, we absolutely make that happen. If you want to keep this private, if you want it to be anonymous, if you just want to speak strictly with somebody from my team and just get the paperwork and legal logistics squared away, then we can assist with that in a private and confidential manner. So, we really let the donor’s desires guide that process.

Taylor Pardue (23:51):

OK. You brought up a great point. I’m so glad you did. Whether they want to keep it public or private, if they have already included NC State in their future plans but they have not notified us yet, talk about the importance of documentation.

Katherine Miller (24:07):

Absolutely. Well, first of all, on our end, we just want to be notified because we really want to thank you. We really want to celebrate you and invite you to all these things and help you kind of see that impact of your future gift. But beyond that, there really are a lot of administrative things to consider. So, one other thing my team does, in addition to what we’ve talked about here, we also work on the backside of estate gifts. And so, all gifts that are currently being received by the university from folks who have passed away come through my team, and we’re the ones that work with the attorneys and executors to actually bring those gifts in the door. And so, we see a lot of situations where gifts that we weren’t aware of and didn’t have the chance to have those conversations. And plenty of them are straightforward, and it’s just they’ve left an unrestricted gift, and that’s perfectly fine.

(25:00):

But there are a lot of nuances that people often aren’t aware of if they haven’t had conversations with anybody at NC State. So, for example, many universities have just one foundation or perhaps two. Sometimes their primary foundation and their athletics are separate, but they might just have one or two. Here at NC State, we have upwards of 10 or so foundations. A lot of our larger colleges have their own foundations. In addition, we have the NC State University Foundation, which encompasses several of the smaller colleges as well as our units like University Libraries and the Division of Academic and Student Affairs and things like that. And so, first of all, knowing which foundation even to name in your plans is really important, depending on how you want that gift to flow.

(25:46):

If folks haven’t had a conversation with us ahead of time, they may indicate in their plans that they would like it to go for a scholarship but oftentimes aren’t able to get more detailed than that just working with an attorney, whereas, if they include our team in those conversations, we actually can work to get that scholarship document prepared ahead of time. So, beyond just the name, again, the criteria, because we can have conversations about what criteria we are able to allow, and there are certain criteria that federal guidelines prohibit from using. And so, having those conversations with folks to help them understand merit-based or need-based or do you want it to be students from a particular county or a particular major and kind of helping them work through those processes that may not be things that they kind of got to that level of conversation just in their own estate planning.

Taylor Pardue (26:43):

And like you said, nothing is set in stone. Things can always be revisited and everything, but it’s just a good starting point to really get the ball rolling and get them thinking about planned giving and get something on paper and then go from there as well.

Katherine Miller (26:56):

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, anything we’re talking about with a legacy gift, a gift in a will or a trust or retirement designation, the donor can go back at any point in time and go back to their attorney and revise their will or trust or go online to their account custodian and change their beneficiaries. They always have the option to do that, but this gets things in place so that, assuming that that gift does stay in place, that we know exactly what to do with it. And that’s a great point. This just kind of popped into my head, but you were asking about something we see with gifts: Retirement gift designations are becoming a much more popular vehicle these days, and an interesting thing to know about that, and I mentioned the tax advantages there, is that, oftentimes, when you are making that designation online with your custodian, oftentimes, the only kind of space they give you to input is the actual entity name and tax ID number.

(27:50):

So, oftentimes, all folks are being able to input is, for example, the NC State University Foundation. That’s it. That’s all it says. And so, without a conversation with us here at NC State, that gift in the future is just going to come as an unrestricted gift that could benefit a huge number of areas.

Taylor Pardue (28:06):

Yeah, still beneficial.

Katherine Miller (28:08):

Yeah, yeah. Whereas, if they were to call us up and say, “Hey, I want to make a gift. I think I want to make a gift through retirement designation,” there’s a form that we can provide them where they indicate on there, “I would specifically like this gift to be used for X.” Is it a specific program? Is it a specific fund? Do they want to set up their own scholarship? And so, it provides a documentation on our end that, in the future, when that gift comes in, we’ll open the file and say, “Oh, we were aware of this gift. The donor specifically wanted this to go to benefit program X,” and provide those restrictions on the gift that they may not be able to input in the particular vehicle that they’re using.

Taylor Pardue (28:45):

Just that added level of ensuring that the donor gets what they wanted accomplished.

Katherine Miller (28:50):

Exactly. That their wishes are being followed. I mean, this is their legacy, right?

Taylor Pardue (28:55):

Sure.

Katherine Miller (28:55):

And we really want to make sure that it’s exactly what they envision.

Taylor Pardue (28:59):

You mentioned in your donor example that they were excited to get it in before the end of the year. Is there a better time, because — planned giving, it’s all future thinking, but is there a better time of year than another tax-wise that a potential donor should contact you and be considering making a planned gift? Or is it …

Katherine Miller (29:19):

Yeah. So, if we’re talking about a legacy gift, not really, because it’s not going to be realized, presumably, in the particular year. So, legacy gift — I find that folks typically aren’t terribly hot on working on their estate plans once you hit November. That’s more of a January to October task for most people. But no, we kind of do that year-round. The particular example I was mentioning, he ended up actually transferring stock to fund that gift currently. And so, for him, there was a tax deduction. So, of course, he was able to get that done before year-end and take the tax deduction for that current year. So, sometimes folks, if they’re looking at gifts of stock or real estate or an IRA qualified charitable distribution, the timing of doing it in one tax year versus another is something that they want to look at.

Taylor Pardue (30:10):

OK, great. So, really, just like the gift itself, it’s whatever the donor wants to make out of it when they want to make it, and it’s really their, like you said, their legacy in the truest sense of the phrase.

Katherine Miller (30:19):

Absolutely.

Taylor Pardue (30:21):

Thanks again for joining us today, Katherine, and for all that you and your team do to facilitate planned giving here at NC State. It really is an invaluable way to support the university.

Katherine Miller (30:30):

Well, thank you, Taylor. I appreciate the opportunity to come on and share this information with folks, and I hope, if anything, what they take away from this is, if this is something they have any interest in at all to please know that myself and my team are just so happy to talk to folks. We’re very friendly, I promise, and have a lot of just easy conversations. And if it’s just some information you want to gather, we are just more than happy to spend the time and talk with you about that. And if it suits you, that’s wonderful, and if it doesn’t, we understand as well. We appreciate your interest in learning more, so please don’t hesitate to reach out. That’s what we’re here for, and thank you for taking the time to listen.

Taylor Pardue (31:15):

For more information on how you can benefit NC State through planned giving, please visit ncsugift.org.

(31:24):

If you’d like to hear even more stories of Wolfpack success, please subscribe to the NC State Philanthropy Podcast today in the Apple or Google Podcast stores, on Spotify or through Stitcher. Be sure to leave us a comment and rating as well to let us know how we’re doing. Thanks for listening, and as always, go Pack.