Theme Music (00:00):

Please listen carefully.

Taylor Pardue (00:01):

Welcome to the NC State Philanthropy Podcast, telling the world how we Think and Do through the support of our friends, alumni and more. I’m your host, Taylor Pardue.

(00:18)
On our Season 6 premiere, we’re joined by Julia Law, director of NC State’s Study Abroad office, to learn about the wide-ranging benefits that come from studying abroad.

(00:31)
Thanks so much for joining us today, Julia. To kick things off, just tell listeners a little bit about yourself and what first brought you to NC State.

Julia Law (00:51):

Well, if we start back further, I would say what really got me into study abroad first was that, when I was an undergraduate student in college, I knew going into college that I wanted to study abroad.

Taylor Pardue (01:05):

OK.

Julia Law (01:05):

I had some international friends as a kid when my dad was in grad school, and I always thought it would be so cool to go and see where they were from and to learn more about them. And so, it was always a personal interest of mine to be able to study abroad. But I also did service-learning work, and I worked while I was in undergrad, and all of those kinds of experiential activities that I took advantage of as an undergrad were the most meaningful part of my college experience.

(01:38)
And so, when I was graduating, I had been studying psychology and thinking about grad school for that and thought, “You know, the things that I’m most passionate about from my personal experience have all been those kinds of opportunities.” So, I decided I wanted to go into higher ed and to really focus on being able to provide those kinds of opportunities to other students. So, not that there’s a direct path to being in study abroad, though there is more now than there was when I was just getting started, but it worked out.

(02:07)
I was able to get a position in a study abroad office when I was in grad school, and I guess the rest is history, that I’ve been working in study abroad ever since. And I’ve worked in some small private schools, and I also have worked at big state universities. And I love working at NC State and being with our student population. They’re very generous and earnest students. I also really like working with engineering students, and STEM students is usually, traditionally, a harder student population to get to study abroad.

Taylor Pardue (02:38):

That’s true, yeah.

Julia Law (02:40):

It’s more of a puzzle to figure out what will work for them and how to get it to work. So, when I first came to NC State, I was more of an advisor and program coordinator, and I thought it would be really cool to continue to work at a state university and then to be able to work with a larger population of STEM students. So, I’ve been here for 15 years now.

Taylor Pardue (02:58):

Awesome. Yeah, if you were looking for that challenge of working with engineering students, you’ve definitely come to the right STEM university for that.

Julia Law (03:04):

Yes, and it continues to grow.

Taylor Pardue (03:06):

What are some of, I guess, the standout experiences that you had from studying abroad? Was there one in particular that kind of spurred your interest on, or just the overall?

Julia Law (03:15):

I think overall it’s really hard, and you don’t always think about that going into it. It can seem lonely and daunting, especially trying to learn another language and frustrating not being able to communicate, but then makes it all that much more rewarding and all the stronger learning experience. So, learning to be more flexible and creative in problem-solving and patient — not just with others, but with myself.

Taylor Pardue (03:45):

OK.

Julia Law (03:45):

And so, all of those things — it’s the people that you meet and the confidence that you gain in learning to navigate all of that, that really, I think, is the most meaningful part.

Taylor Pardue (03:57):

That’s awesome. You bring up a good point because I think of studying abroad can be challenging and rewarding from the cultural differences and all, but when you throw in language differences as well, that is an added opportunity, but also, you know.

Julia Law (04:12):

Yeah. We have a number of programs that are language-intensive programs, and I did do one of those when I was in college, but we also have a lot of programs where they teach the coursework in English, which is particularly helpful for the STEM students in particular, unless they know another language already. So, we have a mix, but you also might be studying on a program where your courses are in English but the regular day-to-day communication might be in another language. And so, it’s helpful to be able to learn the language for sure.

Taylor Pardue (04:40):

Man, that’s amazing. Yeah.

Julia Law (04:42):

Uh huh.

Taylor Pardue (04:42):

Tell us about your current role and how that works as far as the university as a whole.

Julia Law (04:46):

Yeah. So, I’m the director of Study Abroad. We’ve got a team of about 14 full-time professionals in our office. We also have colleagues at the European center in Prague, which I’ll talk about more here. And I’ve got some Study Abroad folks in some of the other colleges across campus. So, we’ve got a great team. As the director managing that group and thinking about, strategically, where we want to be going, I also do a lot of work on health and safety and some financial components, too.

Taylor Pardue (05:16):

I’m glad you brought that up. It’s a great segue because, I was noticing online, looking at your job description and everything, talking about the risk management of all the different things. It’s one thing to find an opportunity and, you know, kind of send the student out there into the world, literally, but what all does go into planning a study-abroad trip?

Julia Law (05:35):

There’s lots of different kinds of study-abroad programs. So, we have hundreds of different programs at NC State. The one where the majority of students study is at our European center in Prague, and that would’ve taken the most to put together to have a whole center, right? Where we have our own facilities, really beautiful classroom facilities right in central Prague, right by the astronomical clock, if you’re familiar with Prague. And they have their own dorm facilities and faculty and kind of creating relationships with some of the universities that are there to pull in the right faculty who are really credentialed and love teaching to teach the classes.

(06:14)
But there’s a lot of thought in the type of classes that will be offered on any of our study-abroad programs so that we can take the context of where they are into the class. So, we don’t want to just teach the same class in another location; we want to be really intentional about the type of classes that are offered. Or if we are talking to a faculty member who comes and says, “I want to run a program,” then thinking about where would be the best place to offer that kind of program where they have connections.

(06:45)
Lab space could be particularly tricky, but some of our programs, they might be doing field work. So, we’ve had programs all over the world doing all different kinds of things, you know, from digs in Cyprus to being on a boat collecting data from marine wildlife in the Bahamas. It’s all different kinds of opportunities for students.

Taylor Pardue (07:06):

Well, I’m glad that you brought that up about faculty as well, because I think of it as you working with the student, but you’re also working with faculty, and it really is a holistic approach to this to, yeah. I’m sure it is challenging to orchestrate that anywhere, but especially when you’re working overseas and I’m sure regulations and everything that go into that.

(07:24)
So, yeah, I’m glad you mentioned Prague, specifically. It just celebrated a very big milestone.

Julia Law (07:31):

They did. They’ve had 20 years of NC State students going and studying in Prague, and it’s kind of developed over time and now is a European center for our students to study right in the heart of Europe. It started as a faculty-led program, and it really has grown from there, starting with mostly faculty in the College of Design, but now it’s a center that serves students across the university. So, there are fall and spring semester opportunities, and programs for students in summer as well.

(08:00)
In the fall, they have a connect program for students who are part of the Spring Connect at NC State, where they’re admitted to start in the spring as opposed to in the fall. So, they kind of have a gap during the fall term. And some students might take courses at a community college or might work during the fall term until they start in the spring, but some have the opportunity to take advantage of studying in the European center in Prague for the fall term, and then they’re able to take some classes and really get to know other students who are in that same program as them and have a chance to study abroad even before they’ve started their, matriculated as NC State students.

Taylor Pardue (08:39):

That’s amazing.

Julia Law (08:40):

That’s a really cool program.

Taylor Pardue (08:42):

I knew there were ties, obviously, between the two campuses, but I didn’t realize they really did line up that well.

Julia Law (08:47):

They do, yeah. And in the summer, we have a lot of different types of courses that students can study and take there. There are some courses that apply directly to majors, but a lot of general education requirements that students could take while they’re abroad. There’s some faculty-led programs, but there’s also an internship program that students can do an internship in Prague, too, now, so that’s a cool new opportunity for them.

Taylor Pardue (09:07):

That is amazing. How do you go about, I mean, like you said, kind of sky’s the limit on the opportunities that we have all around the world. How do you go about placing a student in a particular scenario? What does that kind of meeting and discussion look like?

Julia Law (09:22):

So, usually the first question we ask students is, “What is your major?” So, you know, 25 years ago, they might’ve said, “Where do you want to go?”

Taylor Pardue (09:30):

Sure.

Julia Law (09:30):

But today, we really want to start by talking what’s your major and go from there. “Do you want to study abroad for a semester, or are you looking more for a summer opportunity?” And then, because we have hundreds of programs, that can kind of feel overwhelming to think about which one is the right fit for you, but then we can really tailor the conversation in talking about the types of programs that would be a best fit for the student.

(09:52)
So, looking at what kind of classes they want to take while they’re abroad so they can continue to stay on track. Students who study abroad at NC State study abroad at the same amount of time as students who don’t, so it doesn’t extend your time to graduation, but we want to find out what they’re looking for, right? What their goals are for their experience. And certainly, some students, maybe they’ve always wanted to visit the Eiffel Tower and they’re just set on wanting to study in Paris or in Florence or something like that. We can work it out. But otherwise, if students are open to hearing about the different opportunities that are available to them, we can really talk about what their major is and kind of go from there and highlight different types of opportunities and see what might be a good match for them.

Taylor Pardue (10:33):

I love that. No one size fits all.

Julia Law (10:35):

That’s right.

Taylor Pardue (10:36):

Everything really is tailor-made for the students.

Julia Law (10:37):

Yeah. And some programs might be with a whole group of NC State students and with the NC State faculty member or at our European center, where there’s a lot of support for students. And if you’ve never gone abroad before or by yourself, that is a great kind of program opportunity because there’s a lot of support for you. And we have other programs where maybe students are more independent and they want to see what life is really like as a student in that country, in that host university. And so, we have bilateral exchange partners, too, where students can study at our longstanding partner universities and be a regular student for a semester that they’re studying there, and they can choose from all the classes that are available.

(11:18)
So, most of our exchange partners are ones that our faculty have selected and chosen because they’re a great university where they might have joint research projects that they’re working on. And so, they’ve identified that this would be such a good school for our students to go as a visiting student. And what’s really cool about the bilateral exchanges is that they go both ways. They exchange both ways. So, our students pay NC State tuition and fees, and they swap places with a student from that university who comes here to NC State for a semester or for a year.

(11:49)
So, we have kind of our longest-standing exchange partners, our Nagoya University in Japan, where for 40 years we’ve been sending students back and forth to Japan and all kinds in between. But one of our newest partners is a Danish technical university where there’s been a lot of investment from research and projects together in the biotech field. And they identified that because of all of this other research activity, again, it’d be a great place for our undergraduate students or master’s degree students, too, to be able to study abroad.

(12:26)
And so, that’s been a great new addition to the portfolio because our engineering and STEM disciplines have a lot of alignment between the two institutions. It’s a great place to go and visit for the semester, but that requires a lot more independence.

Taylor Pardue (12:39):

OK, sure.

Julia Law (12:41):

So, being abroad for a whole semester, living in a dorm, trying to navigate the course-enrollment process is a tricky step. So, you’ve kind of got to be up for the challenge. And it’s good that students usually can kind of self-select which program’s the best fit for them.

Taylor Pardue (12:56):

Awesome. Study abroad just seems so fitting for, a lot of times when I’m writing stories, I like to promote how NC State helps our “state, nation and world.” And especially the bilateral programs, like you were saying, not only as much as that is a help for our students to go out, but to bring other students in and, you know, show them what NC State is all about, just really amazing. What are some of the benefits that students on both sides can take advantage of, and, you know, what do they walk away from these programs with?

Julia Law (13:23):

Sure. So, I, at least, you know, I highlighted this a little bit at the beginning for myself as the benefits is you get to expand your worldview and you get to learn about other people and kind of where they come from and how they might do things differently. Some things, you think, maybe they do better than we do, and other things you think, why did they do it this way? But it’s really good to think about things with a different perspective and from a different viewpoint and with a different history and background and context that plays into that. But it also is an opportunity where you get to develop really meaningful relationships with other students, especially on those kind of group programs. You really get to know those students intimately when you’re traveling with them and navigating complicated situations. And with a faculty member, they might end up being more like a mentor for you.

(14:12)
There’s been a number of situations where students studied abroad with a faculty member, and they came back, and now they’re working as an undergraduate research student in the lab. But they, you know, you get to meet other students who are also enrolled at that university who might be international students like you. You get to meet other locals, because it really kind of expands your network, and relationships are meaningful in your life all across.

(14:36)
It also can really increase a student’s independence and your confidence. Over and over again, I’ve seen students over the year who are more timid coming into my office, kind of shoulders hunched, and then they come back and they’re a whole new student, standing taller and so much more confident and, really, with more of an idea and sense of self of who they are and where they come from by going to another place.

Taylor Pardue (15:04):

That’s true.

Julia Law (15:04):

It gives you more context for yourself, too, and what does it mean to be an American or what does it mean to be from NC State as opposed from other places around the world?

(15:12)
They’ve also had some new research that’s come out.

Taylor Pardue (15:17):

OK.

Julia Law (15:17):

You know, every few years, there’s more research on the benefits of studying abroad. But, again, the research has shown that employers recognize the benefits of studying abroad because students who study abroad, they get hired more quickly post-graduation. They make more money on their first jobs. Specifically, they saw that students in business were making about $4,160 more if they had studied abroad than if they hadn’t on that first job. And they’re more likely to be promoted into leadership positions.

(15:47)
So, alumni who’ve studied abroad noted critical thinking skills, adaptability, problem-solving and that kind of communication skills and cross-cultural communication that’s really important in any workplace. There was one time a while back where I had a panel of folks talking about studying abroad, and there was a hiring manager for Eaton & Associates, and they hired a lot of NC State alums, right?

Taylor Pardue (16:13):

OK.

Julia Law (16:13):

And she said, “When I see a résumé come through and they’re an NC State student, I know they have all the technical skills that I’m looking for.” But she said, “If I see a résumé and they’re an NC State student who studied abroad, then I know they’re the whole package.”

Taylor Pardue (16:31):

Oh, wow. That’s what you want to hear.

Julia Law (16:33):

Yeah, exactly. So, it’s personal benefits, it’s academic benefits, and it’s also professional benefits and helping you to take another step forward. It’s an investment in your education.

Taylor Pardue (16:44):

That’s a great way to say it: an “investment,” yeah. I heard you speak at an event back in the spring, and it just really has stood out with me is, you said, “Studying abroad is not a vacation.” Sometimes, people think that because they’re going to a new location that they’ve never been to — a dream location, like you said, if they’ve ever just always wanted to see the Eiffel Tower, that sort of thing. But, especially like you said, the coursework stays the same. They’re not losing time, anything like that, and they’re working as hard or harder than they would when they were here on campus at NC State. So, just a really good reminder of all of that and all the benefits that come along with it.

Julia Law (17:21):

Sometimes, we just see the Instagram version of things, right? So, you see the smiling faces standing or jumping in front of whatever iconic location where they’re studying, but it’s also figuring out public transportation and getting into the class and figuring out why the syllabus is so short and what exactly are they supposed to be doing to be successful here. And it’s all a challenge that’s really worth it. And that’s what allows so much learning to take place, is we provide support that allows them to be successful, but it is a challenge. It doesn’t just perfectly lay out the way you might imagine.

Taylor Pardue (17:57):

Well, it’s like you were saying about that employer. They see that as, that student is the whole package then, but the student, in turn, is getting the whole package. They’re getting an unforgettable trip. Like you said, lots of smiles, lots of, you know, jumping up and down in the photos and then the videos and everything, but they’re still getting the top-quality learning experience from us and from around the world. So, great to hear that. You mentioned cost.

Julia Law (18:21):

Yes.

Taylor Pardue (18:22):

It doesn’t cost them time, as far as their studies and everything like that.

Julia Law (18:26):

Correct.

Taylor Pardue (18:26):

But, of course, there is a cost that goes in with study abroad. Talk a little bit about that and how, especially, philanthropy plays an important role in making that possible for these students.

Julia Law (18:35):

Absolutely. There is certainly a cost to getting to another place, right? So, in the least, there’s the cost of airfare for a student to be able to study abroad. The additional cost can be anywhere from just airfare — you know, about $1,500 or so, up to $2,000 or more than what they would have been used to covering. Or even in the summer, they’re choosing to study abroad and pay for the cost of study abroad as opposed to working.

Taylor Pardue (19:00):

Yeah.

Julia Law (19:00):

So, there can be a bigger gap for students who want to go on a short-term program that might fit better for them academically or based on the type of experience that they’re looking for.

(19:10)
So, scholarships really do make a difference in allowing students to go. Of all of our students who are studying abroad, if they receive a scholarship, they’re twice as likely to study abroad than if they apply for a scholarship and don’t receive a scholarship. So, it really can make a difference for our students in allowing them to be able to go. But there are also a lot of things that we need to build into the programs to ensure that they’re academically rigorous, that they’re safe for our students, that there’s an infrastructure support system for them while they’re there. And then we want them to do things beyond the textbook, right?

(19:46)
So, most of our program opportunities, students are able to get out to historical landmarks or into industry buildings to talk to professionals locally from those locations or to kind of have tours of, you know, we’ve had students who were studying public transportation and civil engineering, right? They’re going and talking to folks there, or they might be studying sports management, and so, they’re having tours of the soccer stadiums and other facilities like that, but they might have a guest lecture or all those things are built into the program, and they have a cost, right? And the cost of the faculty member going or hiring for them to teach locally for our students. So, we work really intentionally as we’re building the programs to be mindful of everything that we’re building in and that this is an investment that our students are making. And so, we’re very cost-conscientious when we’re developing and building our programs.

(20:44)
Similarly, with our bilateral exchange partners, we’ve invested a lot of time in those relationships and kind of matching that they’re the right partner university, but those are the most affordable opportunities for our students to be able to study on those bilateral exchanges. And the university has invested funds in our office’s setup. There’s some universities where all the study-abroad fees pay for the staff, and that’s not the case for us.

Taylor Pardue (21:10):

OK.

Julia Law (21:10):

The university is helping to pay for some of our staff and our team, so that reduces the cost for students. So, comparatively, NC State study abroad programs are very affordable if you look at other study abroad programs. But the students, you know, have a wide variety of backgrounds and may have funds or limited funds to be able to cover those costs, and we want it to be accessible to the entire NC State student population. So, we work very closely with the financial aid office so students can utilize their financial aid package while they study abroad.

(21:44)
Our office is also a very robust scholarship process. So, we’ve been able to build that up over the years, some investments from departments across campus or colleges or from the Chancellor’s Greatest Needs Fund, historically, where we’re utilizing some of the resources that are available to help cover costs for students who are high-need. But our friends of NC State and donors make a major impact on that for students as well and trying to really encourage students to take a summer or a semester away from NC State to study in another location as a part of their larger NC State experience, but not here in Raleigh. And so, we’ve been able to grow the number of scholarships to be about $1 million a year that we’re providing in study abroad scholarships on top of their financial aid packages.

Taylor Pardue (22:36):

Wow.

Julia Law (22:36):

But we also have a lot of students. And so, $1 million doesn’t go that far when we’re talking about 2,000 students who are studying abroad a year. And that number still is not meeting our entire student population, right? If we have 2,000 students who are studying abroad, there’s still thousands and thousands of students who are not studying abroad in a given year. And so, we’d like to be able to open that up to more students. And in order to make that a possibility for them, we need to be able to provide more scholarships to allow them to pick a program that’s a best fit for them and not just because it’s the cheapest one. We want students to be able to select something that will line up with their major and their academic goals and also have the level of support that they need in order to be successful while they’re there.

Taylor Pardue (23:21):

I love that theme running through everything that you said about support, the infrastructure overseas. We’re not just turning students loose and, you know, “Find your own way.” We are making it possible and making sure that they’re safe and superbly benefited during all of this. So, just …

Julia Law (23:34):

That’s right. It’s a part of their larger NC State experience. We’re not just saying, “Ooh, here’s this; go and do it.” We’re really saying, “This will be great for you because we have a partner there. We’ve vetted that particular program. I know their 24/7 emergency contact phone number so that if something happens, I can reach my counterpart there and we can provide coordinated support for students.” So, when you’re studying abroad, it’s not a time away from your NC State experience, but it’s a part of your larger NC State experience where you have all kinds of support and resources and services to you while you’re an NC State student here on campus. We want to provide a complementary amount and level of support for you as best we can while you’re studying abroad, too.

Taylor Pardue (24:19):

And philanthropy, just, obviously, the most tangible way of making all of that possible. I just love how all of that runs together.

Julia Law (24:25):

That’s right. It allows us to have really quality experiences available to students across NC State.

Taylor Pardue (24:31):

How can listeners get involved? Obviously, they can create their own scholarships, but what are maybe some links that you would point them back to we can include in the show notes for them to learn more?

Julia Law (24:39):

Absolutely. So, we’ve got on Day of Giving, we have our own study abroad fund, but there’s also a study abroad fund link from our website where you can go in and any amount adds up, you know, so that we can help support students. And it’s oftentimes a lot of those smaller amounts that builds up that allows us to provide for students who have the greatest need to be able to access this study abroad.

Taylor Pardue (25:01):

And, like you said, it all adds up, but also with students going in the summer and during the spring and fall or during the normal academic year, the need is there 365, yeah.

Julia Law (25:11):

All the time. That’s right.

Taylor Pardue (25:13):

Well, we’ll be sure to include those links and just point people back to your office and for more information, but thank you so much for telling all about this. This really is the best of all worlds for our students, and just a great example of how we do experiential learning here at NC State.

Julia Law (25:26):

Thank you for having me.

Taylor Pardue (25:34):

To learn more about how you can help NC State students Think and Do abroad, visit studyabroad.ncsu.edu. If you’d like to hear even more stories of Wolfpack success, please subscribe to the NC State Philanthropy Podcast today via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or Podbean. Please leave a comment and rating as well to let us know how we’re doing. Thanks for listening, and as always, go Pack.